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Questions about level design tools and performance(I'm new)

audiobellum
Registered User
Quote
2023-04-26 01:23:26

Hello everyone.

I'm Audiobellum and I'm new to this forum. Even though I've been using the Godot game engine for indie game design, I got frustrated dealing with it's level design tools or lack therefore. It's not easy to built maps in Godot, with relying on other software and I'm tired of bouncing between too many programs while developing a game. I've been searching for a new game engine that has better level design tools than that of Godot.
I've seen a Youtube video that says that CopperCube is one of the easiest gaming engines to use. When I went to this websites and check out the features page, it seemed promising. However, it didn't mention what I wanted specifically. So I'm here and I'm just going to ask about it now.

Does CopperCube have tools/features for building levels easily? Does it have it's own level builder similiar to that of Doom Builder, Trenchbroom?

Also, how is the performance on the game engine. The Youtube video I saw about the game engine was from the Youtube channel Gamefromscratch. The performance of the engine in his video doesn't look at that good to me, I'm hoping what I saw in that video isn't indicative of the game's performance.


Guest
Guest
Quote
2023-04-26 02:31:03

If you have problems designing levels in Godot, you are likely going to have problems designing them in CC. Not to sound too harsh, but Godot isn't difficult at all to learn (it's pretty standard). It has its issues like any other game engine, but switching between software is the norm in game development no matter the engine you use. You don't hear carpenters complaining of switching tools for different tasks. That said, CC isn't as capable graphically as Godot and to say otherwise would just be a lie. Estimating a game engine's performance from a screen-recorded video is a bit silly and tells you nothing as you don't know the person's hardware or whatnot. The performance of CC is fine so long as you optimize your game which is standard practice for all game engines. Performance is about the platform you are targeting so you'll have to factor that in as well. A mobile game has different needs than say a desktop application. It's good practice to keep poly counts and texture resolutions under control and relative to their purpose in the game you are creating. If you want a top-of-the-line game with all the bells and whistles, than I would look elsewhere because CC isn't there yet. If you like simplicity and are capable of lowering your expectations to meet your skill level, I would suggest CC. Remember: necessity is the mother of invention.


cristian_emz
Registered User
Quote
2023-04-26 02:41:57

Hello and welcome, I leave you some examples for you to try, coppercube is a game engine that does not have the necessary graphics capacity for this time when everything is more realistic, (if this is your goal, stay with unreal engine) yes what they are looking for is to recreate retro games like psx, ps1, or even ps2 they can help you, and for fast and functional prototypes even on mobile devices and webgl it works very well, now first of all you should take into account that CopperCube uses visual programming for programming , with actions and behaviors, or javascripts or you can combine both...

https://samgamesio.itch.io/duzak...

https://samgamesio.itch.io/coppe...

https://samgamesio.itch.io


Guest
Guest
Quote
2023-04-26 02:42:26

Also I mentioned this before in the forums here, but I have forgotten the name of the post. There is a Doom level editor out there that is capable of exporting 3D meshes. It's name I have forgotten but it's likely on the GZDoom website or something. TrenchBroom might be capable of the same but it's been awhile since I messed with Quake. You might want to look into the Source engine level editor (Hammer or JackHammer or whatnot) as that probably exports meshes as well. Just be sure you don't use any of the textures or 3D models from those games and you should be fine.


luposian
Registered User
Quote
2023-04-26 02:44:45

I chose CopperCube over GoDot, because it does lot of the game development work for you. I was able to figure out a lot of stuff all by myself (no coding required! Yay!). I was able to import my game character's animated .fbx file (I had to rescale him, because he was a giant, for some reason) and attach a camera and several other things. If you mess around with the FREE version and tinker with existing examples, plus look into all the various documentation and such, you'll be able to get something up and running in almost no time.

You can find many other examples. Google "CopperCube games" and you'll find lots of examples to look at and play with. Seemingly, whatever the game engine, itself, doesn't do directly, you can code into it, with Javascript. It's amazing.

I suppose, depending upon what you want to do, you might find certain limitations within CopperCube, but I haven't found any yet. Personal experience is the best example, rather than someone else's review or experience.

Give it a go and see for yourself if CopperCube 6.6 is right for you.


cristian_emz
Registered User
Quote
2023-04-26 02:46:06

You must also master Blender or a 3D software otherwise it won't work for what you want to achieve...


cristian_emz
Registered User
Quote
2023-04-26 03:03:38

more examples...
https://vish.itch.io


audiobellum
Registered User
Quote
2023-04-26 03:20:36

Guest wrote:
If you have problems designing levels in Godot, you are likely going to have problems designing them in CC. Not to sound too harsh, but Godot isn't difficult at all to learn (it's pretty standard).


Yeah, I know. It's scripting language is easy to learn for a beginners such as myself and I've even made a small game with it. It's just that I wish it had better level editing features.

It has its issues like any other game engine, but switching between software is the norm in game development no matter the engine you use.


I do make my assets in Blender3d, before putting them in Godot. The issue I have is that I was expected to learn a third 3d software for level design( Trenchbroom); this is not an issue for Unity as it has better plugins for dealing with that. However, I chosen Godot over Unity because Godot is light-weight and my internet at home is slow. I don't feel entitled to more features; this is why I'm looking around to see if another game engine has the feature that I want.


That said, CC isn't as capable graphically as Godot and to say otherwise would just be a lie.


Yeah, I suspected this much based on the video/screenshots I saw.


audiobellum
Registered User
Quote
2023-04-26 03:41:46

wrote:
I chose CopperCube over GoDot, because it does lot of the game development work for you. I was able to figure out a lot of stuff all by myself (no coding required! Yay!).


I've already gotten into GDScript and even though it was easy to learn, I do anticipate that CopperCube is easier to use because no coding is required.


audiobellum
Registered User
Quote
2023-04-26 03:56:48

Guest wrote:
You might want to look into the Source engine level editor (Hammer or JackHammer or whatnot) as that probably exports meshes as well. Just be sure you don't use any of the textures or 3D models from those games and you should be fine.


Seems good to me. I should look into it.


Guest
Guest
Quote
2023-04-26 04:42:00

There's an addon for Blender which can import vmf files here:

https://github.com/lasa01/io_imp...

I see Jackhammer is now called J.A.C.K. You can find it here:

https://crystice.com/jack/

There's a non-steam download link near the bottom.

One final thing: make sure you have a plan on paper before trying to sit down and make a level. Get out some graph paper and a pencil and impose limitation on your creativity so you have a concrete goal in mind. If you don't pay the time first, you will pay it later.


VP
Guest
Quote
2023-04-26 08:19:52

What kind of "levels" are you wanting to make? Coppercube does have a built-in room designer which makes simple dungeons with a few clicks and automatically textures the floor/walls/ceilings for you. You can also import 3D models directly into the scene and place them however you want - like a kit-bash/modular style. You can also use theterrain generator (with trees/grass), then place primitives (fundamental building blocks) to flesh out your world - then use the polygon editor to give better control over the block-build. You can also use 2D planes (with transparent alpha channels) to add instant photographic details (these can also either be dynamically lit or use normal maps to add super-fine details to any mesh without increasing polycount).


okeoke
Registered User
Quote
2023-04-26 10:07:21

Hi audiobellum,

Tbh, if you're going to switch only because of level building tools, it probably doesn't worth it. As it was already mentioned were is no build in level designer tool. The other thing, it's a simple little tool - you can create a basic game without coding within no time, but if you're looking to make something more complex you always need to come up with workarounds.

For me, there are certain areas which the engine lacks:
1. Vectors, raycasting and related math. You want dot product or multiply vectors - you have to write functions for that yourself. You want translate a global vector to local - you need to implement rotation matrix. It's specially annoying since built-in js math functions utilize radians, and the engine uses degrees, so you either overwrite all math functions or translate degrees to radians and back all the time. Even this is not that bad, since you need to only do it once and then you can reuse it. But let's say you're looking to get a surface normal vector - you guessed it, you need to code it yourself. I guess it's also doable since you can access meshes normals. Also if you're using raycasting there is no way to properly visualize it. In godot editor, if I remember correctly, you have this little line, which shows your raycast vector, so you can easily see if it's setup correct or not.
2. Collision. If you're level geometry is different than "tiled" 90 degrees walls built-in collision is more a suggestion than a rule. You need to code it yourself. There is also no way to debug collision boxes properly, since there is no way to visualize them on runtime without "code it yourself". Also ccb only supports ellipsoids collision detection, so no boxes or capsules. There is also no collision detection/resolution between non-static objects - you need to code it yourself.
3. Animation. It's not possible to blend animations, or IK rigging or something similar. I mean, if you have 2 animations - run and attack you can't blend them to get attack while running.
4. Pathfinding and AI. There is no built-in pathfinding - you need to code it yourself. Built-in AI is super simple, plus resource demanding. I usually set fps cap to 200 while developing, so I can detect performance issues earlier. Adding 20 enemies with only default behavior to a scene drops fps to around 120 to me.

Other than that it's a nice little engine. If you want to learn a new tool for a change, it might be a good choice.


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